Keywords: 2.4" wide tire,27.5,700c,gravel bike

The future is WI.DE. OPEN!

Gerard Vroomen - 30-May-2019
As you will have noticed from the previous blog and the one before that, we've been working hard on a new model for some time. And today is the day we are ready to unveil the new OPEN WI.DE. (Winding Detours). 

When we launched the U.P. (Unbeaten Path) in 2015, it created a new category of performance gravel bikes. Equally at home on-road and off, with 28mm or 2.1” tires, the U.P. allowed people to ride anywhere and get there fast.  

This category has since exploded (and may we say, sometimes with bikes a little too “inspired” by the original U.P.). Meanwhile, the U.P., U.P.P.E.R. and New U.P. have gone from strength to strength, winning awards, rave reviews and even a mountain bike race with Geoff Kabush (remember this photo, courtesy of Simon Kocemba):  


The WI.DE. (Winding Detours) will sit proudly next to the U.P. family. While the U.P. focuses on the road-allroad-gravel spectrum, the WI.DE. covers allroad-gravel-extreme rides thanks to its expanded tire clearance. U.P. riders cover plenty of extreme terrain already but the WI.DE. extends the possibilities even further.  
The WI.DE. fits up to 2.4” mountain bike tires. That’s big even compared to some XC mountain bikes. At the same time, it still offers a performance road position for the rider and fits narrow road cranks, so riding efficiency remains high. This means it can conquer almost any terrain, without slowing you down on the easier roads and trails.  

The WI.DE. achieves this by taking the most-copied feature of the U.P. – its dropped chainstays – and doubling down on it. The WI.DE. drops both chainstays, creating a very efficient box structure for the monostay behind the BB. This increases BB stiffness, reduces weight and squeezes even more tire clearance out of the frame.  
When you see it, it's so logical. And it makes you wonder why a few dozen bike companies copied the dropped single chainstay without ever thinking of dropping both. Let's just say that despite their habit of running off cliffs, lemmings won't go extinct anytime soon! (and yes, I know, this is a myth, lemmings don't do that. They only get thrown off cliffs by Disney directors to fake it and win an Oscar.) Anyway, let's go back to the bike that lets you ride up those cliffs!  
In addition, the WI.DE. is optimized for 1x drivetrains only, which further helps tire clearance (the U.P. also offers 2x, although most riders build their U.P. with 1x, so forgoing the 2x option on a bike focused on even more extreme terrain isn't really a limitation at all). There are some other interesting features:  

Updated geometry: With slightly taller headtubes, the WI.DE. gives you even more control on the trickiest terrain, including rutted singletrack, loose rocks and “extreme gravel”. It also gives the WI.DE. a different fit option to the U.P. For a true road race position the U.P. might be best, for a more endurance position the WI.DE. might more often be the better choice. Of course this all depends on your personal riding style and body dimensions.  

New size: Due to popular demand, we’ve added an XS size to our line-up. This is one of the smallest gravel frames you will find. Be sure to check stack/reach for a fair comparison with other frames, not toptube length, which can be misleading.  

Nimble handling: We have a reputation to "live U.P. to” as the original U.P. offered great handing regardless of the tire size used. The WI.DE. steering geometry was tweaked to offer the same feel but over a different range of tire sizes (35mm to 2.4”).  

Smartmount 160: The brake calipers are attached directly to the fork and frame, without any adaptors. The mounts are positioned pre-set for 160mm discs for both front & rear (the only sensible choice for gravel bikes). In the rear, pre-setting the brake caliper for 160 means angling it a bit relative to the chainstay. As a result, the rear post is a bit taller than the front, so it uses two different bolt lengths. A very elegant solution and one of those small details that seem so logical afterwards. My personal favorite. Overall, the Smartmount 160 setup for front & rear is lighter, cleaner, stiffer and safer.   

Toolbox mount: Under the bottom bracket, the new monostay offers a perfect location to attach a toolbox. Out of the way with a low center of gravity, this is the perfect spot for your tools. The mounts are offset to create extra clearance with the chainring.  

De-Fender-Ready: I know this will make a lot of people very happy: the WI.DE. frame and fork are prepared for OPEN's upcoming De-Fender mudguard system. It has fender mounts, sort of, except it doesn't, but it does have a few, but not all. It is the cleanest way to mount fenders I have ever seen, both with and without fenders it looks completely like it is completely natural. We're putting the final touches on the fenders themselves, and expect to have these available before the end of the year.  

I go over most of these points in more detail in this video:

So you may wonder, what are the main differences with the U.P./U.P.P.E.R.? Well, here is a short overview and a video to explain: 

Feature

WI.DE.

U.P./U.P.P.E.R.

Riding style

Allroad, Gravel, Extreme, Mixed surface (off-road dominant)

Road, Allroad, Gravel, Mixed surface (on/off-road)

Tire widths 700c*

35-46mm

28-40mm

Tire widths 27.5”*

1.9-2.4”

1.9-2.1”

Drivetrain

1x only

1x and 2x

Geometry

Tall Road

Standard Road

* Depends on tire & rim combination, always check for sufficient clearance


So that's it. The WI.DE. framesets will start to appear in stores later in June, and even more info can be found here. You'll also notice the website has been revamped, including a feature that might appear a bit odd: the choice between two website themes. I'll explain that in a later blog, this one is long enough as it is.

One quick note on why we launch today when the product still needs a few weeks to get to stores: a few months ago DT Swiss asked for our help in a media launch for some new products, and we used the WI.DE. media frames for that (yes, including "that one Large".) Their media embargo ends this week, and we thought it would be a bit strange if you learned about a new OPEN model via DT Swiss media stories.

Unfortunately, this means the launch coincides with a few days that Andy and I decided to take off, after a several months of working non-stop. So until next Monday, we're both relaxing a bit and answers may be a bit slow in coming. That said, we'll probably sneak a peak at the comments below this blog post in the next days and will try to answer them as we can.

Comments & Questions

OPEN
n + WI.DE. !?!
Post #1 of 71. Posted by Serge Bobbera on 30-May-2019 19:42:18 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18482]
OPEN
Amazing.
Congratulations!
Post #2 of 71. Posted by Bengt Novik on 30-May-2019 20:33:00 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18484]
OPEN
Oh boy this rocks can you read my mind about what I really dream of in adventure bikes.
Oh know a fourth open in my family. Oh well has to be.
Post #3 of 71. Posted by Donald on 30-May-2019 21:00:19 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18485]
OPEN
That fixes the problems I have been having finding the right 2.1" tires for my riding ... sweet bike, well done.
Post #4 of 71. Posted by Dean on 30-May-2019 21:30:44 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18486]
OPEN
BTW there are more and more 2.0 and 2.1 tires that are really great too, so you shouldn't have too much trouble. What type of tire are you looking for?
Post #9 of 71. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 31-May-2019 04:25:50 GMT in reply to post #4 [18486<--18495]
OPEN
Not in New Zealand ;)
Post #40 of 71. Posted by Dean on 03-Jun-2019 18:07:17 GMT in reply to post #9 [18495<--18531]
OPEN
AMAZING Bike! GREAT Job!
Will look at the geometry etc..now.
Post #5 of 71. Posted by Antoine on 31-May-2019 00:22:05 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18488]
OPEN
Redrawing the Gravel again! Well done!
Will fit slick 2.0 on 700 I think...
Good idea the fenders!
Post #6 of 71. Posted by Andrea Folin on 31-May-2019 02:29:53 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18490]
OPEN
At that width it might be better to go to 650b. But of course it all depends on the tire model and rim, a 2" tire can fit like a 45mm or a 55mm tire depending on which tire it is and how it's set up.
Post #10 of 71. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 31-May-2019 04:26:47 GMT in reply to post #6 [18490<--18496]
OPEN
Your bike should be like your smile when you ride - WI. DE. I'm taking my Classic U.P. to the Yorkshire MTB Marathon again next week - I was the only drop bar at the inaugural event last year. It's a small local bike shop run challenge on land only available on that day each year. My U.P. handled nearly everything perfectly, only struggling with my lack of finesse and fitness. The one surface my fattest 650B's couldn't tame was the sun-baked hoofprints on the field edge bridleways. I know, I know, innocent and innocuous, yet insidious - Wi. DE. - Wi.ll DE.livers thee from such evils! Yes it's a long way from Kanza Toto, but diversions are ... Errrr ... Diverse. So, as a side note the World Bicycle Relief Trail Buffalo DK raffle is for a great cause, but only US eligible - WIN A WI. DE. in Europe could help a lot of kids and families in Africa - just a thought.
Post #7 of 71. Posted by Tony Oswald on 31-May-2019 02:30:03 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18491]
OPEN
Hey Tony, where can we learn more about this raffle for a WI.DE? Please provide a link. I Googled "World Bicycle Relief Trail Buffalo DK raffle" and couldn't find it. Thanks!
Post #24 of 71. Posted by Tom B on 01-Jun-2019 17:02:15 GMT in reply to post #7 [18491<--18510]
OPEN
No, sorry for the confusion.

The raffle was for a Rodeo Labs Trail Buffalo bike at Ditty Kanza with the proceeds going to the World Bicycle Relief charity in Africa.

It was a US residents raffle only and I was suggesting you could offer an OPEN WI. DE. as a prize for your own raffle for European entrants to promote the bike and also help children in Africa.

Sorry again for the worry.
Post #25 of 71. Posted by Tony Oswald on 01-Jun-2019 17:12:40 GMT in reply to post #24 [18510<--18511]
OPEN
Nice new frame! You seem to like the area to film and bike just 2k from where I live:-) Best and see you!
Post #8 of 71. Posted by Jonas on 31-May-2019 04:15:48 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18494]
OPEN
Well, it's not the most extreme, but it's close to the office!
Post #11 of 71. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 31-May-2019 04:28:18 GMT in reply to post #8 [18494<--18497]
OPEN
Dirty word I know... but dropper? Have you changed the seatpost size by any chance... fingers crossed.
Post #12 of 71. Posted by JC on 31-May-2019 05:31:49 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18498]
OPEN
Definitely haven't changed the seat post size. But more and more 27.2mm droppers are coming out, including the SRAM AXS dropper. Which will be a great combination with the WIDE, as you can set it up for 1x and then use the "spare" shift option to set the dropper. I.e. the front derailleur shift action will instead move the dropper.
Post #18 of 71. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 31-May-2019 14:51:58 GMT in reply to post #12 [18498<--18504]
OPEN
WHY BUY THE UP....when you can buy the Wide??
WIDE can do everything the UP can but the up cannot do what the WIDE can. The UP is obsolete?
Except those who will get a deal on it when it stops being produced…?
The WIDE is the future or shall I say thats now! Now/near future!
• “Road” bikes w 2.5” 29/700c clearance + fendrs aka ALLROAD bikes.
• Next trend: Allroad Rear suspension, linkage front forks, flexing bars n seatposts.
Post #13 of 71. Posted by Dex Tao on 31-May-2019 09:34:30 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18499]
OPEN
People who want one bike for everything from pure road to gravel, the UP/UPPER is likely the bike of choice. You can run 28mm road tires on a WIDE if you want, but an UP does that better. Same with people who want to run 2x, who want a more aggressive geometry, etc. So there will be plenty of people who prefer the UP, and plenty who prefer the WIDE.

As for those trends, while for sure some companies will make such things, they will likely remain small niches.
- Road bikes with 2.5" 29er tires will always be very sluggish and hence feel much less like road bikes than bikes like the WIDE. It's simply not possible to get the geometry for a real road feel when your chain stays have to be that long and your head tube that high.
- Suspension takes so much fun out of the on-road and fast off-road stretches of any route that this won't make sense for most people. Especially given how much suspension a 2.4" tire already offers. Then it's just a bad mountainbike, instead of a good road/all-road/gravel bike. As for flexing parts, today good parts do that already, but even then it matters less and less when the tires are so big and 80% of the vertical compliance comes out of the tire.
Post #17 of 71. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 31-May-2019 14:50:33 GMT in reply to post #13 [18499<--18503]
OPEN
First off, congratulations Gerard & Andy, you guys continue to lead the market with innovative designs that work.
I think this design is absolutely brilliant, the trend @ least here on the west coast is certainly blurring the line between XC racing and gravel bike courses.
Specifically Lost & Found race, and even more so the Grinduro, both adding more dirt/singletrack every year, and lucky for me both in our backyard.
I'm building my WI.DE. for Grinduro 2109!
Enjoy some well deserved time off.....and thank you for making kick ass bicycles!
Post #14 of 71. Posted by doug honeyford on 31-May-2019 11:17:29 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18500]
OPEN
You're REALLY planning ahead for that Grinder 2109! If it's actually for the 2019 edition, have fun!!
Post #16 of 71. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 31-May-2019 14:45:42 GMT in reply to post #14 [18500<--18502]
OPEN
Love it. Really nailed this one I think
Post #15 of 71. Posted by Brian Harris on 31-May-2019 13:39:21 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18501]
OPEN
I really like this new WIDE geometry and concept. The extra stack is smart, and much appreciated. Love the double dropped chainstay idea as well.
Post #19 of 71. Posted by Ben Thomson on 31-May-2019 16:34:40 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18505]
OPEN
We aim to please!
Post #27 of 71. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 02-Jun-2019 03:33:34 GMT in reply to post #19 [18505<--18513]
OPEN
Great new bike, Andy and Gerard! When will we be able to buy the new jerseys?
Enjoy your days off!
Post #20 of 71. Posted by Felix W. on 31-May-2019 16:39:07 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18506]
OPEN
The ones you see in the video? Pretty soon I think, although we've been more focused on frame production than jersey production!
Post #28 of 71. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 02-Jun-2019 03:34:32 GMT in reply to post #20 [18506<--18514]
OPEN
Congratulations, bravi!
Can’t wait for a full spec of those two builds you are riding in the videos.. looks like a force axs and an eagle 10-50 cassette?
Anyway, great job, keep rokin!
Post #21 of 71. Posted by Stef on 31-May-2019 18:23:13 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18507]
OPEN
As soon as Andy is back, he'll post the first installment of June's Bike Of The Month, which is one of those two WI.DE. bikes from the video.
Post #29 of 71. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 02-Jun-2019 03:35:18 GMT in reply to post #21 [18507<--18515]
OPEN
Already with a size small frame, I find my options when it comes to bike packing bags a bit limited. Seatpost bags are no problem, handlebar bags that don't touch the front wheel are also available, but IIRC the only frame bag that fits is the Apidura racing. How about teaming up with some bag maker to get some bags that make the most of what little storage space that xs frame will most likely have?
Post #22 of 71. Posted by Rasmus on 31-May-2019 19:36:28 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18508]
OPEN
As you say, Apidura is a very good option for that. When I find the time, I'll try to make a post with more info on bike packing options in various sizes, but it's like power meters and chainrings, endless variety makes it hard to give good advice for everybody.
Post #30 of 71. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 02-Jun-2019 03:36:34 GMT in reply to post #22 [18508<--18516]
OPEN
I have just checked the website of Apidura and I have found that when you select a specific bag, under "sizing" (right from "Specification") you can select the "manufacturer" and the "model' (Open UP in our case) and it list all bags from Apidura that fit.
I just send Apidura also an email asking them to check and list their bags for the new WI.DE ;-)
Post #42 of 71. Posted by Antoine on 03-Jun-2019 21:19:10 GMT in reply to post #22 [18508<--18533]
OPEN
"Into The Great WI.DE Open" We miss Tom Petty but we got the WI.DE. Very nice job!! Well done. But may be to wide for the rides i like to do most. But i'll give it a try when a test bike is available. About the colors. I see a green one and a grey one (vuilniszakgrijs, Dutch trash bag grey). Any other colors?
Also found a short review from Jan Heine's Off The Beaten Path. Nice short review too.
Post #23 of 71. Posted by willemjan on 01-Jun-2019 08:23:05 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18509]
OPEN
There is no green one, only the half matte/gloss grey. I think you'll find it's quite different from vuilniszakkengrijs, unless you have very posh vuilniszakken at home.
Post #31 of 71. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 02-Jun-2019 03:37:43 GMT in reply to post #23 [18509<--18517]
OPEN
the reverse of you had me at hello..

1x only..

I understand the technical limitations, but 1x does not provide sufficient range on the long descents, but most importantly not enough on extreme long climbs in the andes or alps 15% plus for over 3 hours for which i wanted the wide.. anything inbetween the UP masters perfectly with the schwalbe 40mm g-one (except deep mud.. but what does). perhaps this shows how good the original UP was as a design.
Post #26 of 71. Posted by youpmelone on 01-Jun-2019 20:41:22 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18512]
OPEN
1x offers a bigger range than 2x. You can get up to 520% range.
Post #32 of 71. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 02-Jun-2019 03:39:51 GMT in reply to post #26 [18512<--18518]
OPEN
Double always tops single with the same cassette.. gravity is a bitch that always wins.
Post #33 of 71. Posted by Youpmelone on 02-Jun-2019 09:51:07 GMT in reply to post #32 [18518<--18521]
OPEN
Sure, double always tops single with the same cassette, but that's a bit of a pointless comparison when there are so many cassettes that only work with single. A 10-52 Rotor cassette, a 10-50 Eagle cassette, a 9-46 e13 cassette all offer huge ranges and cannot be combined with a 2x setup.
Post #38 of 71. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 03-Jun-2019 04:39:43 GMT in reply to post #33 [18521<--18529]
OPEN
On the other hand, what works and not seems a bit vague. I run Shimano road derailleurs with 11-36 cassettes and compact or subcompact 2x cranks on all my bikes, my Specialized Sequoia even came with that setup as standard, and IIRC that gives me just over 500 % range. And according to Youtube people run 11-40 with standard 105 and Ultegra derailleurs.
Post #44 of 71. Posted by Rasmus on 04-Jun-2019 06:16:34 GMT in reply to post #38 [18529<--18536]
OPEN
11-40 works out of the box with dura ace 9100 di2.
And 10-42 works ok with NX and a subcompact 46-30 Rotor on the UP.
Post #50 of 71. Posted by youpmelone on 04-Jun-2019 09:58:18 GMT in reply to post #44 [18536<--18550]
OPEN
that is a 644% range.. Double still beats single hands down, without a weight penalty, without chain guides, without dropping the chain. Without screaming Bauke Mollema style while you are on the mountain (i recommend his f*cking Sram video.. been there exactly)

The world needs a narrow chain, narrow q factor triple. 500 gram cassettes are not the solution. But I'm sure someone will come with that major breakthrough in 5 years. Single is a solution looking for a problem. It's not lighter, not more efficient, not easier to clean, not more reliable (Eagle is the biggest disappointment I've tried), not safer (loosing a chain in a rocky descent brrr..), it's more sensitive to tolerance issues, setup drift etc.. It works fantastically in excel though.

I'll wait for the OPEN M.O.N.S.T.E.R
60mm Schwalbe G-one (fast in sand, beach, mud, and single trail safe)
Special edition Shimano Triple Di2. 22-32-44 11/44
The ultimate can do all bike.
Post #51 of 71. Posted by youpmelone on 04-Jun-2019 10:14:48 GMT in reply to post #50 [18550<--18551]
OPEN
Single will eventually win me over. It just hasn't done so yet. I'd say I'll be riding 1x in 2-3 years.
Post #52 of 71. Posted by Rasmus on 04-Jun-2019 11:05:51 GMT in reply to post #51 [18551<--18552]
OPEN
i tried, made no sense to me, went back to good old shimano.
2x, perfect shifting, no dropping chains, no exotic parts, easy replacement in any country. Now if bloody shimano would allow to mix mtb di2 part with road parts we would be able to build the high speed can do all bike.
Post #53 of 71. Posted by youpmelone on 04-Jun-2019 11:28:34 GMT in reply to post #52 [18552<--18553]
OPEN
I believe you can mix up Shimano road Di2 components with their gravel components which will give you a similar set up as the mtb components.
Post #63 of 71. Posted by CP on 08-Jun-2019 06:54:40 GMT in reply to post #53 [18553<--18575]
OPEN
The gravel group (grx) is pretty spot on and in my view the best option on the market.
With the NX and the Rotor 46/30 I already had pretty much the same setup (i wish they'd have gone to 29) which provides the best range in the market with superb shifting under load. I assume that the shifting improves with the GRX rings compare to the Rotor rings, but losing the power meter is a big step back and the reason i stay with Rotor. The servo wave brakes is def a step forward and they will get on the new UP.
Post #64 of 71. Posted by youpmelone on 08-Jun-2019 08:16:53 GMT in reply to post #63 [18575<--18576]
OPEN
You want a narrow-Q triple? Those two things are per definition incompatible. And the more rings, the worse off you are for tire clearance, so that 60mm tire won't happen either.
Post #57 of 71. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 05-Jun-2019 14:41:41 GMT in reply to post #51 [18551<--18563]
OPEN
Theoretical range and exotic part are all cool to talk about and maybe try out on a race bike but not on a bike that should bring you save through harsh conditions and survive travel etc.

When your life depends on it (remote cycling in mountains etc) the first step is to take a Shimano chain. The second step is to take a good cassette (that takes every other brand than shimano and sram out of the equation). If you travel with your bike (kind of the point with these bikes) take shimano because it will be impossible to find replacement chain for ASX (i could not even find a replacement for a standard SRAM long cage deraileur on all of Mallorca last season)

I've had 100% SRAM on all bikes for over a decade except for the chain.. The ONE UP made me move to DI2. Dura Ace 9150 shifts 11-40 on 36/52 out of the box (no adapters) on the BMC prototype i ride. the NX does 10-42 on the Open.

So when you want a dependable bike that travels well: a simple Shimano xtr setup (26/36 - 10/45) brings 623% range. Knowing Shimano's tolerances I'm pretty sure 22/36 would work, bringing a 724% range.
Put the UFO drip on it and you have a bike that can handle sand as well.
Post #45 of 71. Posted by youpmelone on 04-Jun-2019 06:26:42 GMT in reply to post #38 [18529<--18537]
OPEN
Sure, 2x XTR on a mountain bike is great. On a dropbar bike, it doesn't really work unless you throw away every advantage that dropbar bike brings. And of course, riding MTB cranks erases the whole point of having an efficient and low-Q factor bike.
Post #56 of 71. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 05-Jun-2019 14:40:04 GMT in reply to post #45 [18537<--18562]
OPEN
Middleburn does a 36/20, white industries does a 40/24 (spot on perfect for a gravel bike), My UP has the ROTOR 46/30.
Hence, the low q option already exists. Technically there should be no issue to have a roadcrank with XTR chainrings.
With a 36/20 or 40/24 you don't need crazy big and heavy cassettes and heavy rear ders. This 2x option is lighter, more reliable, more tolerant, easy to get spares when you're in the countryside.
Since NX is out, 2x beats 1x in rough terrain in range and reliability.
Post #58 of 71. Posted by youpmelone on 06-Jun-2019 03:11:28 GMT in reply to post #56 [18562<--18564]
OPEN
36/20 and 40/24 do not fit on most gravel bikes including the UP (chain will hit the bottom of the dropped chain stay. So yes, the crank exists but if it doesn't fit on the bike, it doesn't matter. Road cranks with XTR work fine, but most regular gravel frames can't attach an XTR front derailleur. Of course on some frames it does (but usually frames with 73mm BBs for MTB cranks, and everything can be made to work, but it's not easy and off-the-shelf. What happens when you brake something on a Middleburn or White Industries crank? If you think it's hard to find spare parts for SRAM, good luck with those. And anyway, if the first premise was a reliable, can't fail, easily repairable setup, we shouldn't be talking about a Di2 setup to begin with, since it scores maybe one out of three. You can always fix mechanical in the jungle somehow, not Di2 or AXS.
Post #59 of 71. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 06-Jun-2019 04:13:01 GMT in reply to post #58 [18564<--18565]
OPEN
I had bikes with dropped chainstays in the early 90’s. Back then it was to achieve short rear ends on MTB with triples and ‘wide’ 2.1” tyres. I’m sure when you refer to being copied you are referring to the Open clones but to claim you invented the drop chainstay is stretching it a bit.

That said I’d love a new UP but my ride buddies already have the good colours (blue and orange) and I don’t want a custom paint job. Any chance that the Wide colour will be available on a New UP frame?
Post #34 of 71. Posted by Guy on 02-Jun-2019 14:32:22 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18524]
OPEN
Of course we don't claim to invent dropped chain stays, i don't think there is much to invent in this world in any sense. Most "inventions" combine concepts and ideas in new ways.

No chance of the UP coming in the WIDE color, but there is always the option of a limited edition (not to be confused with a custom color).
Post #37 of 71. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 03-Jun-2019 04:37:37 GMT in reply to post #34 [18524<--18528]
OPEN
Did I miss the frame weight?
Post #47 of 71. Posted by John Williamson on 04-Jun-2019 08:26:15 GMT in reply to post #37 [18528<--18542]
OPEN
I don't know, did you? :-) It's around 1040g for the Medium.
Post #48 of 71. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 04-Jun-2019 09:22:35 GMT in reply to post #47 [18542<--18543]
OPEN
Thanks, that's PDL!
Post #49 of 71. Posted by John Williamson on 04-Jun-2019 09:28:32 GMT in reply to post #48 [18543<--18545]
OPEN
Hi Gerard, does the combination of the Eagle AXS rear derailleur and cassette, and the Force AXS levers and chainset work really well? This is exactly the set up I was thinking of building with either the U.P. or the WI.DE.
I'm heavily leaning towards the WI.DE. now, as I really like everything about it.
Post #35 of 71. Posted by Ritchie on 02-Jun-2019 20:40:38 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18525]
OPEN
Hi Ritchie, yes it does, all AXS products are meant to work together so they can be mixed. The only critical bit to remember is that you need the EAGLE chain, not the Force AXS flat top chain for such a setup. The chain should match the derailleur (the pulleys are not compatible with the chain of the other kind), not the crank. The other things is that alignment is very critical for the Eagle setup, so it is paramount that the rear derailleur hanger is installed properly, tightened well and if necessary aligned to within 2mm at the rim radius (that's about twice as small a tolerance than most other derailleurs seem to work well with).
Post #36 of 71. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 03-Jun-2019 04:35:12 GMT in reply to post #35 [18525<--18526]
OPEN
Thanks for the tips Gerard, I'll make sure your advice is followed.
Post #39 of 71. Posted by Ritchie on 03-Jun-2019 13:33:53 GMT in reply to post #36 [18526<--18530]
OPEN
Great Job Gerard and Andy!

I just ordered the WI.DE last week right after the announcement and I am now waiting for the delivery ;-)

It will be built with Dura Ace Di2 (easier in terms of maintenance etc..for me as I have this also on my road bikes) and XTR Di2 rear derailleur, 3T cockpit, 3T seat post, Time Atac pedals, and the new DT Swiss GRC when available. I really can't wait to ride it instead of my hardtail (Scott Scale Premium/ 26") which is fine but I am really not a MTBiker and I quite dislike flat bars. I will first ride it with 700C wheels and then check if I really need some 650B also.

On the side note, I suppose that I belong to the few people that are not big fans of the more "relaxed" geometry (and I therefore had to go for a smaller size because of the stack) but it definitely suits better the "bike packing/ adventure" concept. And looking at the gallery for the U.P/UPPER many customers have some spacers anyway...

Oh and the fenders? I hope that you will give us all a nice option for the fenders for 700C (and/or for 650B)....A nice and clean version would be terrific! Please do not disappoint us …please….Best would of course to be able to mount/dismount them easily also….
Post #41 of 71. Posted by Antoine on 03-Jun-2019 21:08:18 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18532]
OPEN
Hi Antoine, we'll definitely try not to disappoint you!
Post #43 of 71. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 04-Jun-2019 03:58:12 GMT in reply to post #41 [18532<--18534]
OPEN
I guess I’ll have to another bike to my stable....:-)
My UP is set up with the DA/XTR Di2, but the WIDE will be set up with the GRX Di2 groupset.
Post #46 of 71. Posted by CP on 04-Jun-2019 08:18:42 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18541]
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Why with the GRX and not DA/XTR?
Post #60 of 71. Posted by Tony on 08-Jun-2019 02:39:11 GMT in reply to post #46 [18541<--18572]
OPEN
The taller shifter really shines on bumpy/fat downhills.
Plus I can run Shimano crankset with Shimano drivetrain, and I imagine it will be a lot cheaper.
Post #62 of 71. Posted by CP on 08-Jun-2019 06:50:46 GMT in reply to post #60 [18572<--18574]
OPEN
Yes cheaper for sure!
(Re. crankset: Together with your DA shifter/brakes/cassette/chain and you XTR Di2 rear derailleur you can use a shimano Dura Ace crankset with a wolftooth 1x chainring.)
Post #65 of 71. Posted by Tony on 08-Jun-2019 10:32:44 GMT in reply to post #62 [18574<--18577]
OPEN
Indeed. I’m running the DA9100 crank with 48T Wolftooth with 11-36 Sram cassette on my 3T Strada. They look good, but I prefer the slim-lined look Shimano OEM look. I run the Easton crankset on my UP and it works/looks great, but I’m sure the GRX crank will work as well (probably better) and it will be much cheaper.:-)
Post #70 of 71. Posted by CP on 12-Jun-2019 12:15:42 GMT in reply to post #65 [18577<--19599]
OPEN
The GRX levers are indeed very, very nice, really a big step up in comfort, also during braking from the hoods.
Post #67 of 71. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 10-Jun-2019 17:53:26 GMT in reply to post #62 [18574<--18593]
OPEN
Speaking of GRX, would the 48-31 fit on the UP ?
I'm on the fence since I rarely use the 34 of my 50-34 on the road, yet for off-road it is actually tempting although maybe that would be pushing it for clearance, would it? (almost perfectly happy with my 11-42 cassette)
Post #68 of 71. Posted by Raff on 11-Jun-2019 10:46:45 GMT in reply to post #67 [18593<--18595]
OPEN
I don't expect any major problems but fit is related to a lot of issues including the exact rear derailleur geometry, so we're waiting for all the parts to be sure (and the parts are delayed, so we don't know yet).
Post #69 of 71. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 12-Jun-2019 03:41:47 GMT in reply to post #68 [18595<--19595]
OPEN
Any consideration of adding rack mounts (or another model aimed at the adventure category)?
Post #54 of 71. Posted by Lee on 04-Jun-2019 14:54:09 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18555]
OPEN
Well, this model is squarely aimed at adventure (as is any OPEN model). But no rack mounts planned ever.
Post #55 of 71. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 05-Jun-2019 14:36:35 GMT in reply to post #54 [18555<--18561]
OPEN
Hi there :)
Same fork as the new UP ? No worries about putting 2.25 on the front end of my blue UP then ?
Any suggestion for tires similar to Thunder Burts ?
Post #61 of 71. Posted by Raff on 08-Jun-2019 06:43:29 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18573]
OPEN
No worries, and you can put a 2.4" on the front too. Thunder Burts, Racing Ralph (really the best tire I think, also in 2.1")
Post #66 of 71. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 10-Jun-2019 17:52:16 GMT in reply to post #61 [18573<--18592]
OPEN
Hi Andy and Gerard, a few questions on the WIDE: (1) Will a left crank-arm pod powermeter (e.g. Stages) fit the bike? If not, which PMs are compatible? (2) Do you anticipate the WIDE being a decent/good Cyclocross racing bike? It appears the main triangle is large enough to be comfortable for shouldering and the geometry isn't that far off from an aggressive CX setup. As an aside, my road bike is a 2010 Cervelo R3 -- I keep trying new bikes every year but that 10 year old bike is still my favorite and it still rides like a dream! So basically you had me at thin seat stays!
Post #71 of 71. Posted by Bilal on 12-Jun-2019 14:17:01 GMT in reply to blog [0<--19601]
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